Have any of you had a hard time finding...

Hi all,

At my company, we're having a similiar problem, but reversed. I do all the controls work, so we need a machine builder, somebody who can visualize a machine to fit a problem, design, draw, buy/make parts for and build it. I'll make it dance, friend, you just give it some feet.

We've been looking for a while now, and what we mostly get are guys who can design machines, but have to hand the plans off to the tool room from there. We have a full tool room, mills lathes and EDM even, but the guys there are always busy with tooling and dies. Ergo, our person needs to be able to make his own parts

The big thing for me is, I have to work hand-in-hand daily with the new guy. Apart from the skill set, the candidate needs to have a good disposition.

I like my company, I love my job, and I'm thankful to be where I am, particularly since some of the posts here indicate my kind of job (pure controls tech, wire machines, program controls, some maintenance supprt, and now SCADA) is exceedingly rare. We're a clean plant, well-funded, always buying and developing new equipment. I've worked in some pits, and had a "poison" boss, and brother, I know how good I've got it.

I don't need a to hear a 2-hour tirade on how the company stinks, the operators are illiterate, management is lazy, the engineers are idiots, and nothing is done correctly. One of our more technically qualified applicants was complaining about the job BEFORE HE HAD IT!

So, we're still looking. If anybody has the mechanical skill mentioned, a mellow disposition and plays well with others (and an interest in living in the Tampa, Florida area), heck, gimme a yell. I'll pass resumes on to the boss. My username here is TimothyMoulder, drop me a private message and I'll get you an email address.

A few final notes -

1. Anyone who says "ladder logic is ladder logic" has never really programmed a thing in his life. Call me an elitist if you like, but I consider PLC programming a craft. Just because you can write a coherent sentence doesn't make you Stephen King, and just becuase you've strung a few ladder contacts together and made the lights blink, doesn't make you a programmer.

And I could do Ken's flip-flop :)

2. I don't work to learn - learning is part of my job, like hooking up wires or writing code. I am always looking for better ways to do what I do. It makes the product better for the company, improves my value, and yeah, it's a pride thing. In my opinion, anyone who isn't learning from or about his job, and thinking of ways to do it better and more efficiently, isn't doing his job.

That's my two bits. Sominex is taking hold now, so g'night all!

TM
 
Here are some flip flops to look at

http://www.flipflopgirls.com/

I can flip these too
hamburger.gif


A plc flip flop?
http://www.patchn.com/flipflop.htm

Almost forgot, cant have a burger and look at flip flops without this:
beermug.gif
 
Last edited:
Timothy- We have several guys who can do what you say, they just don't want to anymore. They moved from machine assembly to engineering, and while it makes them great engineers, they don't want to go back. In our situation, that is fine. Plus if we have a push in the shop, they can help.
You can't have them, though. They were the guys who stayed when we had layoffs a couple years ago.
 
Submarine grounding

Rod
re your question
All the navy dudes - how do you ground a sub? Is it then a 'floating ground'?

When the sub is on the surface the ground is floating.
When submerged it is sinking.

A sub is grounded when you run out of water. There was a guy who put his up on the beach here in Puget Sound. Very bad career move.

OK to get serious. All our main distribution 440 3 phase lighting (110 3 phase) and DC 250 was ungrounded.

Never saw a neutral until I became a civilian - did not know what it was.

What I have wondered about is how did they ground the 110 V receptacles?? The Navy was REAL big on ground conductor conductivity 3 ohm or less and we had to check the receptacles. Never took one apart though so I do not remember how they were bonded to ground. I assume they just bonded them to the nearest piece of framework.

Dan Bentler
 
I once had an ex-navy (sub) panel builder tell me that an exposed ground is a hazard. He is the same guy who I convinced that there is such a thing as three phase DC. I don't believe he held a tech position in service.
 
Eric,

I don't remember if it was capitalized but I wanted to put emphasis on it.

It just makes me mad that these people think that this is such an easy thing to do. It is a mockery of the time and effort that I have put in to learn these things.

All of the late nights, lost sleep, grey hair, ulsers, shakes and some jackoff plant manager or maintence supervisor is going to tell me it is no big deal?????

I have worked very hard to get where I am at, as all of you have. It just ****es me off when someone tells me anybody can do what I do.

I can't count on my (or even your's for that matter) fingers and toes the amount of engineers and programmers that I have followed behind to clean up their mess.

Give me a break..... These are our future employers? I sure am glad that I am not a kid trying to decide what to do with my life while in school.

I sure wouldn't pick this career path...
 
Re: Submarine grounding, two words that should be in the same sentence.

leitmotif said:
Rod
re your question
All the navy dudes - how do you ground a sub? Is it then a 'floating ground'?

The hull is ground. Yes, there is a lot of exposed ground. I think targets (surfaces ships) are wired the same way.

leitmotif said:

When the sub is on the surface the ground is floating.
When submerged it is sinking.

A sub is grounded when you run out of water. There was a guy who put his up on the beach here in Puget Sound. Very bad career move.

Funny, true. Give the subs a break. Give them plenty of room to manuever. There maybe a JO trying to get his qualifications at the conn.

leitmotif said:

OK to get serious. All our main distribution 440 3 phase lighting (110 3 phase) and DC 250 was ungrounded.

Never saw a neutral until I became a civilian - did not know what it was.

That is because the 3 phases were floating with respect to the hull. Most of the big equipment was connected between phases. I can remember that test where always being done that checked each of the three phases impedence with the hull. All three phases were supposed to be isolated from the hull. If something went wrong you could operate with one phase 'grounded' to the hull, but not two.

leitmotif said:

What I have wondered about is how did they ground the 110 V receptacles?? The Navy was REAL big on ground conductor conductivity 3 ohm or less and we had to check the receptacles. Never took one apart though so I do not remember how they were bonded to ground. I assume they just bonded them to the nearest piece of framework.

Dan Bentler

I don't remember much about the 110v. All I can remember is that there were a lot of isolation transformers. I just thought everything was isolated using transformers.


I once had an ex-navy (sub) panel builder tell me that an exposed ground is a hazard. He is the same guy who I convinced that there is such a thing as three phase DC. I don't believe he held a tech position in service.


He must have been a nose coner, not a nuke.
 
Sub grounding

Using the hull makes sense and using plenty of isolation xformers makes MORE sense. I assume aircraft have the same deal PLUS the static charges due to the wind.

Closest I came to mil electronics was building F111s. The AC panel is on the right, the DC on the left. The AC was ?VAC@400Hz ?phases. My job was hyd/pnu and skin/structure. Knew BASIC house wiring, a three way light switch took me 2 hours to install - with the diagram!

Gotta start somewhere!

Rod (The CNC dude)
 
He is the same guy who I convinced that there is such a thing as three phase DC.

I have been convinced of this for years, there are many 3 phase DC brushless motors out there. Semantics can be tricky, there is such a thing as 3ph DC but I dont know where it would be used as a primary supply voltage nor have I seen it used that way.

I have also worked with 2 and 5 phase motors.
 
Goody said:
I might also add (while agreeing with the above) That most electricians I meet have no interest whatsoever in plc programming.

That is not a fault, it is how they are made. I have a man work for me who is the best electrician I have ever seen. neat, quick, hard working and professional. But, when he goes home, he has gone home, thats the end of work for him.

I have tried kidding and cajoling him into learning the basics (and others) He just does not want to know. I accept it and respect his wishes.

I think plc programming is a calling, if you are forced into it you will resent it. You must want to do it in the first place.

I am/was an electrician that made the move (because I wanted to) Slowly I noticed over the years that I was coming home with clean hands and my tools were staying in my toolbox for days at a time.

My tool inventory was also getting smaller, ie small screwdrivers, long nosed pliers and a digital meter were all I carried.


being in the UK i think its different to the states.........

I have not come across a single electrician that knows what a plc is let alone can program / diagnose one!

And Goody you are right it is a calling :)
 
ITS EASY ANYONE CAN ,,,,,,,,,

Anything is easy
IF you are watching
SOMEONE else who
REALLY knows what he is doing and has been doing it for quite a while.

It has been quite a few years BUT if I recall correctly
acceptable resitstance from any line (conductor) to ground on the sub I was on were
DC 50 K
AC 440 1 meg. Any value less than those resulted in
1. Finding the problem
2. Isolating it and deenergizing
3. one (or all) of us electricians doing some work.

I liked the comment that all Navy wiring was the same (ie ungrounded) whether submarine or target.

We did not have the term nose coner when I was in just nucs and foward guys. There were lots of foward guys who were just as smart as the nucs (sonar, electronics, advanced torpodoe men, etc). It did not matter how smart you were, but whether you knew your job and did it well.

The only isolation transformers I recall were those on shorepower (to isolate from grounded system) and (if you want to call a stepdown an isolation - which it did of course) the 440 to 120 transformers to supply lighting, Interior Communications swithcboard, and Reactor Control. Almost every motor control circuit was two legs of 440.

The whole idea of not grounding was for personell safety and probably to reduce magnetic fields induced by current in the hull.

Dan Bentler
 
Re: Re: Submarine grounding, two words that should be in the same sentence.

Peter Nachtwey said:


I don't remember much about the 110v.


At least what I remember on the surface ship I was on, the 110 was a floating potental 55v to ground on the hot and 55v to ground on the neutral. Had to take a step back the first time I check and outlet.
 
Hi,

I'm penning this just to say that we live essentially in
a free market and as such ones experience or time/sacrifice
made in order to learn a trade/craft/profession etc dosen't
enter into the pay/cost of what you have to sell-be it your
labour or product.It is not a meritocracy in which we live,
work trade etc but as already stated above , a free market
economy where supply and demand determine the price of a
product-be that an article in a shop or the amount someone
is paid.This means in essence that if a very highly paid
person is suddenly not required or the supply of people with
his particular skills goes up with no corresponding increase in
demand then-due to supply and demand-his price/salary will go
down.It is how the free market works.It is not interested in
sacrifice or time spent in learning a trade/profession or the
amount of knowledge/experience that you have.Its simply a case
of supply and demand.
 
Define 'electrician'

504bloke said:


I have not come across a single electrician that knows what a plc is let alone can program / diagnose one!


Perhaps you better explain what you mean by 'electrician', I am classed as an electrician and I can assure you, I know what a PLC is and I can program / diagnose one.

Paul
 

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