Simoreg DC Master drive problem

Worked at a plastics extrusion plant with screw type extruders. DC motors and cabinets were almost all fan cooled. HOWEVER the filters were useless. They trapped the big particles but let the flour size go right on thru. Motor interiors were caked 1/4" with this dusty oily goop. Same for circuit cards in the DC drives.

Dan Bentler
 
Who's to say the drive is set up properly too. Something tells me it was set up over the phone and I will bet its not tuned properly

Its like me calling GM because my tires wore out. And by the way I put them on and balanced them in my garage.
 
bkottaras,

The cabinet that contains the drive is quite large and never had any kind of cooling fan, just vents. This was from the manufacturer this way. But for 10 years it sufficiently kept the old drive cool enough. The new drive could be more sensitive to heat. We installed a cooling fan anyway.

Here's what we are being told by the person that recommended and installed the new drive. He is telling us the motor is causing the drive to fail (even though we never had any problems with that motor and or the old Eurotherm drive). He said that the motor was losing power while running. This loss of power caused the drive to supply more current to maintain the press speed. This constant compersation by the drive caused the motor to overheat. He feels the motor had lost some of its insulated coating therefore the loss of power.

What I am trying to figure out here is if the motor caused the drive to fail or if the drive harmed the motor.

Doug
 
JRW

The drive was not set up over the phone. The technician was here for 2 days loading parametrs. Some of the parameters had to come from Siemens and finding the correct person at siemens for this took a while.
 
bkottaras,

The cabinet that contains the drive is quite large and never had any kind of cooling fan, just vents. This was from the manufacturer this way. But for 10 years it sufficiently kept the old drive cool enough. The new drive could be more sensitive to heat. We installed a cooling fan anyway.

Here's what we are being told by the person that recommended and installed the new drive. He is telling us the motor is causing the drive to fail (even though we never had any problems with that motor and or the old Eurotherm drive). He said that the motor was losing power while running. This loss of power caused the drive to supply more current to maintain the press speed. This constant compersation by the drive caused the motor to overheat. He feels the motor had lost some of its insulated coating therefore the loss of power.

What I am trying to figure out here is if the motor caused the drive to fail or if the drive harmed the motor.

Doug
OK, I'll bite!!
Yes, newer drives need much more cooling so the last 10 years don't really count.
Large DC motors used on a press as far as I know do have internal thermal sensors that monitor the motor itself.
Haven't seen many without!
If those were used and connected, the PLC (and the drive possibly) get the feedback and stop the motor displaying an OT (Motor over temperature alarm,).
All presses I worked on do have the alarm as well as an additional one which is Drive OT.
Even if the guy who installed the drive insists that the motor lost part of its insulation and such, the alarms would have stopped the press each time an OT was detected.
Before we go on about blaming the "guy" or the drive something tells me that the Thermal sensors were disconnected for whatever reason.
I've seen maintenance people by-passing the sensors so they can keep running the press and not having to deal with replacing the motor which is a days worth of work the least.
One more thing to look at is the tach feedback, if it slips the drive will try and compensate.
I suggest investigating this whole issue a bit more and then pull the trigger.
 
you migth also wana think about maybe an in cabinet AC unit? they have units out there that work strickly on compressed air - and can lower the ******t air temp by 20-30F (the actual amount of cooling is dependent on ******t plant air temp) i remember looking into that for a conveyor controls job i was quoteing that would have been installed down in the tropics so controling the enclosure temp was an issue, esply because the system has 3-4 VFD's (nothing in your voltage/HP range but still)
 
We do have working alarms on the motor. In fact one day the press slowed down on its own twice. We never got any readings on the motor past 43 c (40 c is suppose to be normal). The first thing we checked was the tach. The tack does not feed back to the motor control though, it feeds to a PLC then the PLC sends the signal to the controller.

When we checked the tach is was working properly. As said in the original posting, the first thing that happened after the new drive is a speed overshoot at start up repeatedly. Then eventually motor overheat error. My maintenance man would heat gun the drive cabinet but once you open the door it is a false reading. He did it sneaky and came up with 54 c on the heat sync (at 129 f that drive definately kicked out some heat).

The whole reason for this new drive was because our old drive was so out of date all you could do is rebuild them. The newer drives were better and less money than the old with a rebuild. One of the things the installer said that I rememeber was that he had installed several of these drive on presses with great success but the presses were all pre-PLC technology. So our press was the first PLC press with this drive.
 
We do have working alarms on the motor. In fact one day the press slowed down on its own twice. We never got any readings on the motor past 43 c (40 c is suppose to be normal). The first thing we checked was the tach. The tack does not feed back to the motor control though, it feeds to a PLC then the PLC sends the signal to the controller.

When we checked the tach is was working properly. As said in the original posting, the first thing that happened after the new drive is a speed overshoot at start up repeatedly. Then eventually motor overheat error. My maintenance man would heat gun the drive cabinet but once you open the door it is a false reading. He did it sneaky and came up with 54 c on the heat sync (at 129 f that drive definately kicked out some heat).

The whole reason for this new drive was because our old drive was so out of date all you could do is rebuild them. The newer drives were better and less money than the old with a rebuild. One of the things the installer said that I rememeber was that he had installed several of these drive on presses with great success but the presses were all pre-PLC technology. So our press was the first PLC press with this drive.
I've done a few pre and post.
Pre PLC would be Analog drives such as the AB 1336 or whatever the part number was.
Makes no difference to me.
I've used eurotherms, Control Techniques, whatever the customer wanted and was within its budget.
The drive gets an analog signal to ramp up to a point and maintain speed.
Either PLC or a speed pot will do the job.
Since the tach goes to the PLC and fed to the drive I see no issue with signals unless you have had the uncontrolable ramp up before the install.
I used to retro Harris M110, 110Bs, 300s etc.
I've used all kinds of drives and usually ended up using the existing ones as we were doing primarily the controls/PLC upgrades and the things ran forever.
I cannot see how a "bad" motor worked without a hickup with the old drive, then the Eurotherm and now it is acting up.
I'm out of options here.
No alarms, cooling is more than enough (according to you),no changes were made recently besides the new drives(right??), the only things left are analog signals somehow get scrambled and screw up the drive or the drive itself is bad or misconfigured.
Bringing someone in with a megger wouldn't hurt at this point.
A couple of drive experts on here , you may get something that I've missed so far from them if they decide to jump in DickDV & Leifmotif (sorry about any wrong spelling, not intentional).
 
We do have working alarms on the motor. In fact one day the press slowed down on its own twice.

the first thing that happened after the new drive is a speed overshoot at start up repeatedly. Then eventually motor overheat error.

Is the field voltage high enough? a weak field might give some of these symptoms. Depending on what the tach is doing to the logic. It cannot hurt to check the field voltage (actual) against the nameplate.
 
I have not had it checked other than by the person who installed the drive. I'm being told the feild is degrading. I am also being told the motor never overheated (even though it slowed down on its own). I guess there's built in Thermistor and he could tell by the drive fault log that it never opened. The thing I can't comprehend is the fact that none of these symptoms (acceleration and heat) existed when my old Eurotherm drive was being used.
 

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