Are there controls jobs that don't take 50+ hours every week?

The maintenance techs are the issue. They take a couple backyard mechanics and put them on night shift in an Automated Plant environment.

They are the only ones willing to work nights, just about every plant I worked it nights were under qualified and were there to just keep it running until day shift would show up, I met a few good techs on nights but not a lot of them

Saffa said:
Do you not require some kind of license to do electrical work over there?

The work you're describing could only be undertaken here by a licensed, registered electrician. Anyone else doing it would be breaking the law.

Not sure about up north but not here in the states... anyone that can does and not that they should but they do, I have seen several accidents where techs shove a screwdriver in a contactor
 
Do you not require some kind of license to do electrical work over there?

The work you're describing could only be undertaken here by a licensed, registered electrician. Anyone else doing it would be breaking the law.

(Of course that still happens too).

I've been where you've been; getting calls about stuff that isn't even electrical. I've had to drive 40 minutes to a water plant to figure out why the "chemical dosing wasnt working". Pumps were running but the auto control for the coagulant was playing up and the operator had no idea how to figure out a dose using a manual method. So i busted out a manual, ran some jar tests, did the very simple math and got the clarifier healthy again. Operator looked at me in awe and said "was that calculus?!"... er no dude, basic algebra and reading. Haha.

Does sound like you need to find a job where there's a supportive management culture who values employee quality of life. Easier said than done, or they don't walk the walk.

I've learnt to just escalate situations now. The phone call to the manager might be "I'm not on call, but they need me to go in. I'm going to be booking extra overtime for this, or taking a day off to compensate. Are you OK with that?". Do it several times at 3am.

When managers share your pain they're more likely to do something about it. Ive gotten really good at sharing.



It is law, but a gray one. In N.S. the Red Seal trade of Construction Electrician is compulsory. That means that even a Red Seal Industrial Electrician can't wire a house. On the other hand, Industrial is NOT a compulsory trade. Meaning anybody off the street can work on 3 phase 600. Scary I know, as I have met only 1 Red Seal Construction guy with Industrial and controls experience, we hired him and he works in our older smaller plant. Not on call though, plus not ready to handle all half or less of the issues that come up in Automation in the newer plant. He also doesn't want to be bothered much as he has a young family himself with 3 youngsters and a working wife. Just says he will go elsewhere if they bug him and he could be employed tomorrow no problem with his skill set. So we gave him Monday to Friday days as well. As you can see, there is nobody to put on nights or after hours. Just keep calling me until I snap.

I have both tickets. I was only the 8th person in the province to posses the Red Seal Industrial ticket at the time that I got it. (close to 20 years ago) So there are not many around. The ones there are, are all working and would simply chuckle at what our company would offer them to come onboard. This means that even if I were to call in a contractor, for 95% of the work, they need hand holding, frequently do it wrong and will never do troubleshooting work.



I like the quote GIT put on about Working a job you love and you will never work a day in your life.... Trouble is though, I have no idea what that would be. The job I love is days off doing anything but working, nobody is gonna pay me for that though.
I like machine work, for the most part, maybe. I guess, just tired of the terms of employment and endless call ins/consecutive days/weeks sitting In front of screens only getting up for coffee time once or twice a day with no signs of improvement on the company end. I am a few months shy of 10 years in at this company now. Asked for help many times, never got it!
 
I am a few months shy of 10 years in at this company now. Asked for help many times, never got it!

Yeah I think it's time to look elsewhere, but I know what it's like when you've been somewhere too long. I'm finishing up here after 8 years, but only because we've lost the maintenance contract. Decided to go work for the competition, who won the contract. It was a hard decision... stay with the devil I know, but end up bounced all around the country... or go to likely another devil but stay living where I am. They even offered me a 20k pay rise to stay... which always annoys me. You didn't value me until there was a risk of losing me? Nice. Keep your money, it's not all about that.

Like you, I became the guy who got all the hard jobs and the after hours calls. There are two others, who don't pull their weight. Tried call out rosters, they either couldn't solve the issues or just didn't answer their phones. Zero management support / interest in making it work. I generally like our operators, and when they ring i know it's because they've tried everything they can first, so you do what you need to do to help them. They are literally the only reason I've stuck with it for so long.

Unfortunately you are shouldering more than your fair share. Others won't learn / improve to your level if they never have to be the one under the pressure to do so. Letting the guy with the young family have the easy road is noble of you; but its at your own expense. I'm sure he could cope with even 2 rostered nights a week, or every second week. After a couple months and some call outs, if he's any good he'll learn to deal with the issues. Small change is always much easier to accept, and whilst it's still not fully fair on you, its -more- fair than you carrying it all.

If none of that works, and there's no management interest to improve your situation... time to find something else.
 
"Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm."

"Graveyards are full of irreplaceable people."

"They'll post your job before you even reach the morgue."

Some quote for you folks to chew on.
 
Scary I know, as I have met only 1 Red Seal Construction guy with Industrial and controls experience, we hired him and he works in our older smaller plant. Not on call though, plus not ready to handle all half or less of the issues that come up in Automation in the newer plant. He also doesn't want to be bothered much as he has a young family himself with 3 youngsters and a working wife. Just says he will go elsewhere if they bug him and he could be employed tomorrow no problem with his skill set. So we gave him Monday to Friday days as well. As you can see, there is nobody to put on nights or after hours. Just keep calling me until I snap.

I have both tickets. I was only the 8th person in the province to posses the Red Seal Industrial ticket at the time that I got it. (close to 20 years ago) So there are not many around. The ones there are, are all working and would simply chuckle at what our company would offer them to come onboard. This means that even if I were to call in a contractor, for 95% of the work, they need hand holding, frequently do it wrong and will never do troubleshooting work.

After reading this bit, I lost a bit of the sympathy I had going here. The company seems willing to accept that some staff is important and needs treating right. You have similar, or even more skills... why do you think they wouldn't do the same for you if you asserted yourself? And if they don't, why not just move on?

I like the quote GIT put on about Working a job you love and you will never work a day in your life.... Trouble is though, I have no idea what that would be. The job I love is days off doing anything but working, nobody is gonna pay me for that though.
I like machine work, for the most part, maybe. I guess, just tired of the terms of employment and endless call ins/consecutive days/weeks sitting In front of screens only getting up for coffee time once or twice a day with no signs of improvement on the company end. I am a few months shy of 10 years in at this company now. Asked for help many times, never got it!

That quote is absolute bollocks and brainwashing. Work is work. The difference is whether you get pleasure from it or not. Also worth pointing that regardless of you doing what you like there is still stress attached to it as you're not in charge of timelines and budget (unlike your hobbies, for example).
I always take the approach of asking for help or complain about something once. If it's not addressed, I move on and don't complain twice. This has caught some people off guard (maybe one of the times was culturally, but they hired me from abroad, so they should have taken that into account), but in places with managers that understood the position they were in, it got addressed pronto.
A company isn't a person... it's ok to have loyalty to people you work with, but they have to earn it and from what you say, they take yours for granted.
 
That quote is absolute bollocks and brainwashing.

Nice anglo saxon :)

Someone told me years ago, that in a workplace they give you an empty backpack, and add a brick every week until you cannot walk anymore. The lesson is to stop walking sooner
 
After reading this bit, I lost a bit of the sympathy I had going here. The company seems willing to accept that some staff is important and needs treating right. You have similar, or even more skills... why do you think they wouldn't do the same for you if you asserted yourself? And if they don't, why not just move on?



That quote is absolute bollocks and brainwashing. Work is work. The difference is whether you get pleasure from it or not. Also worth pointing that regardless of you doing what you like there is still stress attached to it as you're not in charge of timelines and budget (unlike your hobbies, for example).
I always take the approach of asking for help or complain about something once. If it's not addressed, I move on and don't complain twice. This has caught some people off guard (maybe one of the times was culturally, but they hired me from abroad, so they should have taken that into account), but in places with managers that understood the position they were in, it got addressed pronto.
A company isn't a person... it's ok to have loyalty to people you work with, but they have to earn it and from what you say, they take yours for granted.


I understand what your saying. I'm not looking for sympathy either. I was really tired and ranting when when I started replaying to this thread last night. Its my choice to stay and only my choice. They don't treat me bad, they are good folks to work for, just a very high paced environment with a lot going on. The situation just kind of evolved this way. I started as Monday to Friday building the plant when it was new, before production started up. Then as production ramped up, so did the calls. Iv told them already, its not about money why I need some relief, its simply lifestyle. They do pay me well.

The other guy, very nice fellow, simply has no problem telling them how it is, he is in control, he's not available. take it or leave it. I need him, he handles a lot of **** that would otherwise come my way during the days, very occasional call ins as well depending on the time of day, availability, proximity to the plant at the time, so we take it.

The other part of all this is how hard it is to attract any new talent, then when we do find a potential, we tell them how much night, weekend and call in is required and we don't hear from them again. If it were me applying for the job, I wouldn't take it either based on the conditions we set fourth vs pay offered. Therefore, my faith that we will find good help is small.

Again last night they tried to call me in. I had 6 missed calls when I got up this morning. They started at 1:32AM. I was so tired though, I didn't hear the phone. I'm surprised the wife or the boy didn't hear it either, or they did and just ignored it for my sake. They ended up getting the maintenance manager in and the lead hand mechanic also was called in to help who was able with some head scratching (not an electrician) to find a blown fuse and get them going before I got in to work this morning with a couple hours of downtime. That's when its really rough, the second and third night in a row of a call in! Glad I missed this one as it makes driving in not so fun. One more night to get through and this week will be over finally. Saturday is always bad though, they burn a lot of gear when washing on Saturdays that has to be fixed for startup on Sunday..... ughh startup.

Iv a coupe irons in the fire. Hopefully one will get hot enough soon to pull it out and start the next adventure.
 
The maintenance techs are the issue. They take a couple backyard mechanics and put them on night shift in an Automated Plant environment. Not the mechanics fault, they are not equipped for the situations that arise with absolutely 0 electrical knowledge. Example... A few weeks ago, I had a main switch burn on a 480V 400 AMP feed to a freezer panel. 4 "techs" on shift, none are electrically inclined, were getting ready to replace the fuses when I finally arrived onsite. Not 1 of them realized that with the disconnect off, the fuses were still live! Not 1 of them knows how to use a meter! One knife in the switch was burned closed and didn't open when pulling the handle. It was a holiday and only by chance I happened to be near, or it could have been a tragic story. They were smart enough to know a fuse blew, only because it was visually burnt and still smoking when the cabinet door was opened. Nobody checked anything, they were simply going to grasp a straw, change a fuse and throw the switch back on. A 400 AMP fuse doesn't just burn, it happens due to a fault, that fault needed to be found. They were about to touch the live portion of the fuse to unbolt them. Aside from the burning in my nostrils, I knew it didn't smell right and quickly discovered almost 300 volts sitting on the remaining 2 healthy fuses. and almost 480 on the burnt one!
I just cant make them (Management) realize the importance of having competent staff. Its always the farmineering attitude. Now, they say they are not going to support apprenticeships! How crazy is this? Never train or upgrade our peoples skill set and only hire monkeys that are not interested in going back to school, in fear that we will train somebody and they leave for greener pastures..... Like the rest of the modern world and most of the human race, it seems like we are progressing backwards with mindset and overall efficiency.

'Do you not require some kind of license to do electrical work over there?

The work you're describing could only be undertaken here by a licensed, registered electrician. Anyone else doing it would be breaking the law.

(Of course that still happens too).' Quote from Saffa.

I lived a couple of years in Windsor my ex is Canadian and sponsored me. It took me 8 months arguing with the Ontario College of Trades to get them to let me sit for the 442-A test. I passed the test and I have an Industrial Electrician 442-A Interprovincial Red Seal Journeyperson license.
I would think that's what your plant management would want -- to protect folks from doing something fatal perhaps because of lack of knowledge and training or for no other reason than liability and legal issues. I realize you have no control over this.
I don't know what you have for work in Nova Scotia, I lived in Windsor from '16 to '18 and moved back to Michigan.
I know that there were few controls jobs there, maybe Chrysler had something but I didn't look. Electricians don't make much in Canada, and the taxes are much more than here.
I would certainly try and get management to get on board with good people. It may cost them more in wages, however a fatality in the States causes huge liability issues, and those issues increase exponentially with unqualified people tasked to do licensed jobs or safety issues. The cost of such an incident can put a small company out of business. Good luck.
 
Yikes!

I'm a eighteen year HVAC Controls tech and I was thinking about a lateral move. I came here to see what might be involved in a move between HVAC Controls and PLC stuff, training material etc (which the on boarding account creation helped with, thanks). I've been looking around at different jobs that appear to pay more and on the face of it PLCs seemed like an obvious choice with what from the outside looking in seems like a very similar job but in job searches I'm looking at 15~20% pay bump. I feel like my pay is capped out in my present field.

Glad I stumbled on this thread as it brings up a lot of good points. My first couple of years out of the military I repaired (huge) UPS systems for one of the major providers. Obviously the systems those feed are very important which lead to the majority of the job being outside the 9-5 M-F, which sucked. Sounds very similar to what I'm reading here...

Still seems like we have a lot in common and face similar troubles? Where do you all look to for career progression? Not really looking to be a middle manager or run my own shop. I've got a lot of general IT skills from cross training but without hard certs and experience a lat at the same pay scale isn't happening.
 
I was thinking about a lateral move.

Dont limit yourself... get into a large manufacturer as a tech, I would always look to hire someone with HVAC experience (commercial), yes there is a lot of work but the money is good just dont give them your cell phone number :)
 
'Do you not require some kind of license to do electrical work over there?

The work you're describing could only be undertaken here by a licensed, registered electrician. Anyone else doing it would be breaking the law.

Wouldn't this fall under the industrial exemption, assuming michigan has this. I know it is grey and i do not know lots about it other than the documents i have read, partly why i bring it up.
I can see if it were a residential property, but a manufacturing facility is it different..?
 
Wouldn't this fall under the industrial exemption, assuming michigan has this. I know it is grey and i do not know lots about it other than the documents i have read, partly why i bring it up.
I can see if it were a residential property, but a manufacturing facility is it different..?


In Michigan you can install Buss Plugs and run buss-drop to machines as a non-electrician.


Service disconnects and conduit (even Sealtite) require a licensed electrician. I know a lot of places have their maintenance guys run conduit and install service disconnects, but if anything happened because of a bad installation (and I have seen them) the liability would be on the company and their insurance carrier could bug-off the claim.



One shop had a new hire that never ran a wire in his life (he was a car porter at a ford dealership until he got fired). Put in a 200A 480V service disconnect and didn't know about conduit grommets on the EMT fittings. Box blew up in about 2 weeks because the wires got cut through by a conduit fitting.
 
Ok i see.
I understand on the electrician end how this is not allowed. How about machine specific work? Or should i say anything after the disconnect/main CB, on any particular machine or system. Mainly under 125A machines.

I am not an electrician, but to me bus plugs are dangerous, i have done a few, years and years ago and didn't like it one bit. Yes it was physically easy, but the flash risk and explosion was always my concern.
 

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