More teaching, less telling?

[Ron Beaufort]

I'm still around - and retirement life is lovely ... not quite "heaven" but I'm certainly not complaining ...

party on ...

 

[drbitboy]

Wait, Ron Beaufort is not with us anymore?

This forum is a difficult media for teaching. As others said in different ways, teaching is not the same as knowing what to do. Some of the brightest people I know in this profession just can't teach because to them, it's just natural and they don't understand why we just can't seems to grasp "simple" stuff.

For those who are interested in teaching, i have a few suggestions based on my experience both as a student and teacher in this realm.

- try to present the same concept in as many different way as possible.

- Teaching programming/technical stuff is different than say, teaching history. It's about as much as facts as a way of thinking. Exercise that walk through the process is the best' that shows how a problem is solved but hold back a bit of information. As the student get more advanced, hold back more and more of the steps.. eventually, the student should be able to construct the steps on their own.

+1; really well said.

My version of this is "all communication is by analogy."

Two people who just met may have very little in common with less common ground for analogy: each may have no idea how differently the other understands the meaning of a particular word or phrase. In the extreme case, think of two people with no common spoken language. Eventually, communication improves as they understand each other better (dare I say calibrate?), like @harryting's student above, who over time fills in the gaps on their own.

 

[drbitboy]

Teaching is not an easy thing. Ron Beaufort may be together withRsdoran (he is in heaven) are the ones ...

Wait, Ron Beaufort is not with us anymore? ...

I'm still around ...

LOL (I assume @harryting meant that as a joke), talk about an object lesson. How about

Ron Beaufort, maybe together withRsdoran (he is in heaven), are the ones ...

- Eats, Shoots, and Leaves.

 

[widelto]

@Drbitboy: These are the things that I sometimes forget just because my mother language is spanish.
Anyway Dr. thanks you for the correction.
In spite of that I am retired I learn something new everyday, thanks again.

 

[harryting]

There are times I just come here for an answer, usually product related and I just don't want to make 5 different calls and RTFM. In those times, please, just give me the answer.

 

[RET]

It always amazes me the time and effort some people put into their replies, helping someone with a problem. Then a couple posts later the OP says “oh, someone turned the printer off”.

 

[CENTER]

I must say anytime I asked a question or had a problem with a program all I did was ask and someone would spend time and help me figure it out. Not only figure it out but explain to me how I screwed it up. This site is one of the best resources around and I apprecate all the help.

 

[drbitboy]

@Drbitboy: These are the things that I sometimes forget just because my mother language is spanish.
Anyway Dr. thanks you for the correction.
In spite of that I am retired I learn something new everyday, thanks again.

LOL, I was not trying to be critical, and anyway your english is far superior to my spanish.

I thought it was a typo by The Google "fixing" what you entered via your phone; your english is also better than The Google's!
_

 

[BryanG]

Thank you for all the replies and many varied opinions, I am not going to comment on them because every one is valid.
So OP that wouldn't P for yourself, there are your answers, take them or leave them.


Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he will build bigger and bigger nets until the fish is extinct.
Education can be dangerous

 

[I_Automation]

It always amazes me the time and effort some people put into their replies, helping someone with a problem. Then a couple posts later the OP says “oh, someone turned the printer off”.

IE - The HP tech support guy that got fired for an honest appraisal of the situation.


On the phone almost 2 hours with a guy who's computer wouldn't boot up. Finally asked the guy if the power cord was plugged into the back of it.


Guy says he can't tell as it's dark in the office because the electricity to the building is off for the day while being worked on.


HP guy told him to pack the computer up, take it back to the store where he bought it and tell them he's too stupid to own a computer.


P.I.C.N.I.C. Error


Problem In Chair Not In Computer


On the positive side right after it made the news HP fired him he got better job offers from a few other companies.

 

[I_Automation]

...just because my mother language is spanish.
...

I have dealt with people from around the world that kept apologizing for their bad English (Russian, Ukrainian, Chinese, Thai, Filipino and Italian) and I have been able to tell them their English is better than half the people born and raised here.

 

[plvlce]

I have dealt with people from around the world that kept apologizing for their bad English (Russian, Ukrainian, Chinese, Thai, Filipino and Italian) and I have been able to tell them their English is better than half the people born and raised here.

Sad but very, very true.

 

[mylespetro]

I think it can also be taken on a thread-by-thread basis. If the person is specifically asking for knowledge and wants to understand the reason why, I see that as a clear indication of being open to having someone teach them or go into detail on why they're running into the problem they're having.

If someone just tripped a power plant and are clearly desperate for just The Answer, I don't think that's an appropriate time to bust out the blackboard and go into a lecture. I think it's perfectly fine to give your answer (or best guess at an answer) and then tag some information onto the end, but sometimes people just need the answer ASAP and don't need that answer to be buried in a wall of text.

I personally enjoy the in-depth answers, and have learned more than I could have ever thought from the usual suspects on here, so I'll never complain about some detailed answers or explanations.

 

[Operaghost]

I have dealt with people from around the world that kept apologizing for their bad English (Russian, Ukrainian, Chinese, Thai, Filipino and Italian) and I have been able to tell them their English is better than half the people born and raised here.

I'm sure some people here will remember that several years back someone posted here about the poor grammar and spelling. English wasn't his first language and it made it very difficult for him to understand. Things like using "loose" instead of "lose", which to be honest bugs me too. Sadly his message wasn't aimed at other ESL people, it was aimed squarely at those of us that speak English as our first language. If I remember correctly, he was soundly thrashed for this. And like you said, his typed English was better than most English speakers.

OG

 

[PLCDontUQuitOnMe]

For better or worse, this is what I do if someone asks a question here:


1. Look at the join date of the person who asked the question
2. If user joined a year or less = student or fresh grad -> try to lead them in the correct direction without directly giving answer
3. If user has been around for 5 or 10 years, they are likely a professional who just needs a bit of a hand. Nobody lasts in this industry for 10+ years if they are incompetent, so these guys probably just need a hand, and answers can be given freely.
4. If user join date is in between those two, you kind of feel them out.



I don't think you can have one rule for all questions here. Just like in the real world if a colleague asks for help, I will give a different answer if it's a 10 yr veteran versus an apprentice. Giving an apprentice/student the answer directly causes a few problems: they never learn, they never understand how to figure something out that they don't know, and it actually makes the entire industry worse because you end up having people that maybe shouldn't be in certain positions getting by via other's constant hand holding