Electrical Schematics - Model or Layout Space?

[UKB]

Hiya -

Not specifically to do with PLC's but I have been doing a bit of autocad practise recently (ACE_14/15)
I have conflicting information regarding templates / plotting / drawing styles;

1.) Some people tell me I should be drawing the schematic diagrams in model space then adding my template to the layout space and printing from there.

2.) Some people suggest that the template should be in the model space and you construct your drawing within the boundary of the template.

What do you guys do?
I would prefer option 1 and have been making my own templates at home. However at work we go down the option 2 route.

Any advise would be appreciated

UKB.

 

[mendonsy]

I have always done mine as option 1. The actual drawing goes in model space and the template/title block goes in the layout. That allows you to draw the schematic at a convenient size and fit it into the template for plotting. I don't see any advantage to option 2 at all.

 

[dmroeder]

Ours are structured like option 1 as well.

 

[keshik]

I've pretty much always done the schematic in model space, and then add the border in paper space. Sometimes it can be helpful to put a rectangle the size of the border in the model space to know where you should start the next sheet.

 

[Bullzi]

I also do option 1. I put my layout template in paper space but do the actual drawing in model space.

 

[kolyur]

I think option #1 will be the consensus and it is certainly considered "best practice" by Autodesk. But I did used to know some guys who did #2 for mechanical drawings. For drawings with multiple sheets they would even put all of the title blocks in the model space of a single file, and make saved windows around each one for printing. These were old school guys and are retired now; perhaps they had learned AutoCAD prior to paper space being available?

 

[UKB]

Thanks for the swift replies chaps.
Much appreciated.

Can anyone offer an explanation as to why autodesk videos show the template in Model Space (also the drawing examples in DEMO from project manager seem to have the template in model space?)
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX10uHmC-9I )


Kind regards,
UKB

 

[Phil Buchanan]

Thanks for the swift replies chaps.
Much appreciated.

Can anyone offer an explanation as to why autodesk videos show the template in Model Space (also the drawing examples in DEMO from project manager seem to have the template in model space?)
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX10uHmC-9I )


Kind regards,
UKB

What you are calling a template is the title block. The title block just as any other part of the drawing can be done in paper space or model space.

Normally when doing CAD work you will make your drawing in model space and you may have many different title blocks in paper space as well as many different view ports in paper space using the same title block.

But when doing electrical CAD drawings may people only have one title block and view port which for most is 11x17 with a full page view port zoomed and scaled so that the drawing is as large as possible but stays with in the confines of the 11x17 space.

One advantage to having your title block in model space when doing CAD electrical drawings is that you can draw and scale things as you go and give focus and room to certain sections as well as you can see how the drawing is really going to look when printed 11x17 or whatever title block size you choose.

Not having the title block in model space on electrical drawings you may make thing too large and when you zoom and to put in the title block it may be too large and you have to re scale some things to make it fit.

Either way works and there are pro's and con's to each method. It's more preference and how you manage, prepare and present drawings than anything.

 

[OkiePC]

PBuchanan gave a really good answer.

I've pretty much always done the schematic in model space, and then add the border in paper space. Sometimes it can be helpful to put a rectangle the size of the border in the model space to know where you should start the next sheet.

I do this, and make my guideline rectangles as dashed linetype on a layer with printing turned off, just in case they does not exactly align with my viewports in paper space, I don't want any stray lines showing up in the final printed version.

 

[Phil Buchanan]

My personal preference I have the title block in model space when doing electrical CAD drawings as I rarely do anything that's not in 11x17 format but when doing mechanical or other types of CAD drawings I keep the title block in paper space as I will normally have lots of different title blocks and layout sizes on a mechanical drawing but not on an electrical drawing.

 

[keshik]

I do this, and make my guideline rectangles as dashed linetype on a layer with printing turned off, just in case they does not exactly align with my viewports in paper space, I don't want any stray lines showing up in the final printed version.

Very good point on making the rectangle on a non-printing layer.

 

[brendan.buchan]

We use option 2, title block is in model space and schematics are done inside the title block boundaries.

 

[UKB]

Hi Guys,
thank you all for the clear responses.
I set up two title block (thanks for clearing up my definition error P.Buchanan) last night at home in A3 and A4 .
I made my A4 title block in model, when I was happy I copied it into the layout space, for A3 I just scaled up my A4 title block and copied it into a new layout space. I saved this as a .DWT file, I now use this as my template file. It appears to be working...!
I have just started a new drawing at work and I would really like to try and use the component tagging proper.

Is there a typical drawing order? for example
1.) materials list
2.) power supplies
3.) plc IN
4.) plc OUT
etc..

The reason I ask this is because I have inserted contactor contacts, but not the controlling coil yet... and it just seems a bit backwards...
Does autocad expect all parent devices in first, and then child components inserted second?

Kind Regards
Will.

 

[GlenGineer]

back in the days when model space was all you had you used model space. Rule number one was: Keep your drawing to scale. - Scale the border and title block instead.

Now most people use model space for the model and paper space for the printable version. Rule number one is still to keep your drawing in scale.

 

[blackandredwarrior]

This is how I handle my drawings. I guess I should note that firstly, I work for an electrical contractor so our main focus is on "blue print" production. Control Schematics (the former owner was old school hard wire relay guy) were smaller part of a much larger project. I.e. a refrigeration control panel for a Cold Storage facility. I try to keep things to the same process everywhere.

I, like many others, draw in Model Space. I do the rectangle the exact size of the Viewport from Paper Space for the controls drawings. In that rectangle I will the schematics (generally ladder diagrams, see above). I have finally gotten a layout nailed down that I like the finish product of. Now, I know that I do this kind of stupid, but I've just never found a way, well the time, to do it the "correct" way. So I draw things based on a 36"x24" sheet. So these rectangles are spaced out 36" going across the drawing for each sheet. (Normally for our building design, one sheet is one file, generally, usually, but not always.)

Then I have a layout tab for each sheet. On that sheet I XREF in my border. I do it this way as that's my normal way of doing it for the building design so when I make a revision, I note the revision in the title block that is then updated for the entire set and all sheets will reflect that new revision. I have a block that I insert for the title block text that changes with each sheet (generally Sheet Titles, Scale, etc.)

Then I use batchplot to print my sets as PDF at 36x24. The final kicker, I print those at 17x11 for a set of drawings. It's a little wonky drawing and printing like that, but I generally don't think about changing it when I have the time and only think "this is dumb" when I'm too busy to go through and rescale stuff to draw for an actual 17x11 sheet.

As you discovered your DWT (template) is your base sheet that should be set up for all common things on a drawing. Layers, text styles, dimension styles, print styles etc.