Ignition or FactoryTalk

Ignition x100.

FT will always have a special place in my dumpster though. Too many fond memories to let go of it entirely.

I started learning HMI programming on a panelview with FT ME about 10 years ago, and just started with Ignition about 1 year ago, and the difference is phenomenal. I feel like I could do anything I want in Ignition, but FT ME definitely handcuffs your creativity and interactions with the PLC. Ignition is the future of automation interfaces and data gathering. The price/features comparison is way beyond anything else I've tried.

Robb B said:

I started learning HMI programming on a panelview with FT ME about 10 years ago, and just started with Ignition about 1 year ago, and the difference is phenomenal. I feel like I could do anything I want in Ignition, but FT ME definitely handcuffs your creativity and interactions with the PLC. Ignition is the future of automation interfaces and data gathering. The price/features comparison is way beyond anything else I've tried.

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FTV is so outdated! I work mainly on TwinCAT HMI stuff now which is very much like Ignition, but I still on occasion support some FTV applications we have. After working with TC HMI for the past year, I hate even having to look at a FTV application anymore, let alone implementing something with it. I just let the new guy have the FTV stuff. LOL. The HTML5 solutions like Ignition and TC HMI just allow you to do so much more and also never concerned with screen size as it scales nicely to any panel size.

Nah, ignition = Expensive

AdvancedHMI is free and unlimited license.

Anything but FactoryTalk View!

Things that take me 5 minutes in a normal HMI/SCADA software takes an hour in FT View.

I have never used Ignition only FTSE. I would recommend Ignition.

cardosocea said:

The only issue is Rockwell closing PlantPAX with 5.0. Give it another 3 years and PlantPAX is another DeltaV.

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Are you saying Rockwell plans to get rid of the Plant PAX Product?

Tim Ganz said:

Are you saying Rockwell plans to get rid of the Plant PAX Product?

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No, he's saying that until version 5 you could do whatever you wanted with the PlantPAX library (like looking under the hood for the stupid ****ups that went past testing unnoticed). However, in V5, this is no longer possible. The instructions come locked and some are actually embedded inside the firmware of the controller.

Being the reluctant owner of PlantPAX 5 system, I must say it's **** and nowhere near DeltaV and they better not try to charge that price. Why is it ****? To develop an application you need about 4 separate programs (ACM, Excel, Alarms and colours configuration tool and Studio IDE).

Yu then have to import/export between applications until you're left with something you can start coding in Studio. Other systems have all this integrated into their IDE which gives you a lot more confidence.

They don't have a sequence viewer for the SCADA, which is common in pretty much all DCS's that I've used and with a good reason since using SFC is a right pain in the neck.

Basing their SCADA off of the extended properties sounds great if not for the dumpster fire that is FactoryTalk Linx. It's not uncommon to loose half the text on the SCADA screens when doing a minor edit in the PLC program.

My favourite was them coming out with this Bus to group the process objects. Sounds really good in theory, you group objects under another one and you command one object and it relays commands and receives feedback from them. The issue? Well, it hides an awful lot of code from you and worst, conditions for the operators to understand what happened. The other issue is that changing this structure can be attempted from the SCADA (where again it's **** because of how slow it is) or you have to reimport your project into one of the development tools (not Studio) or you run through an array and determine how it actually works and change values in that array to achieve what you want. When I highlighted this to Rockwell, they mentioned they have a tool that does this over Excel, but it's "competitive advantage" so they can't disclose it and even if they could, you'd still need the Rolls Royce of Linx to use it.

DeltaV will have **** like this where you're being penny pinched, but from what I've seen the products actually work unlike Rockwell.

I know a guy working for an integrator who posted his personal opinions about Rockwells stuff a while back. (not this post but one on a another forum) Some time later he was met in his office by a Rockwell rep vaguely threatening his job if he didn't retract it. His boss backed Rockwell up and he did exactly that.

I've seen a change in Rockwell in the last few years this direction so I wonder if that happens to anyone else?

TheWaterboy said:

I know a guy working for an integrator who posted his personal opinions about Rockwells stuff a while back. (not this post but one on a another forum) Some time later he was met in his office by a Rockwell rep vaguely threatening his job if he didn't retract it. His boss backed Rockwell up and he did exactly that.

I've seen a change in Rockwell in the last few years this direction so I wonder if that happens to anyone else?

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The guys I deal with in the UK are pretty chilled (I even received a 0.75kW VFD and an FT Echo download link from them).

However, I do have a reputation from moving a site that had everything from PLC5 up to CLX to Siemens and have a manager that shares my dislike for Rockwell so they tread carefully.

Just as a comparison, I received an S7-1500 with an assortment of IO cards and PSU and a field PG plus all the software licenses required by moving to them. Rockwell? They offered me to pay for them to go on site and do part of my job (pull part numbers from the installed racks).

I am also just as vocal, and quite recognisable in their Engage forums... I forgot to say that we have about 20 sites with all Rockwell and both me and the big shot at corporate level despise them, so there's that...

TheWaterboy said:

I've seen a change in Rockwell in the last few years this direction so I wonder if that happens to anyone else?

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They do seem to get bent out of shape when the quiet part is said out loud.

TheWaterboy said:

I know a guy working for an integrator who posted his personal opinions about Rockwells stuff a while back. (not this post but one on a another forum) Some time later he was met in his office by a Rockwell rep vaguely threatening his job if he didn't retract it. His boss backed Rockwell up and he did exactly that.

I've seen a change in Rockwell in the last few years this direction so I wonder if that happens to anyone else?

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When you have good products at good prices, you don't have to threaten to keep your business going and retain loyal customers. Rockwell has to threaten because their products are mediocre and expensive - especially when it comes to their software. Example - downloading to a PLC while it's running was possible with other vendors in the 1990s, but here we are in 2023 with Logix Designer still incapable of doing that. Don't get me started on FT View - that's a rabbit's hole of examples.

TheWaterboy said:

I know a guy working for an integrator who posted his personal opinions about Rockwell stuff a while back. (not this post but one on a another forum) Some time later he was met in his office by a Rockwell rep vaguely threatening his job if he didn't retract it. His boss backed Rockwell up and he did exactly that.

I've seen a change in Rockwell in the last few years this direction so I wonder if that happens to anyone else?

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We started our transition away from Rockwell 9 years ago and have never once looked back with a single regret. In fact it's been just the opposite - we've been so overwhelmingly satisfied since we made the switch, beyond our expectations. Rockwell wants you to believe you'll be sorry and your business will fail if you go with another automation vendor outside of them. That was pretty much the line they tried feeding us 9 years ago. Pfft. Most companies won't switch though, mainly out of fear. Fear of the unknown. Fear of taking any kind of risk. It's too bad for them, in my opinion.

busarider29 said:

Most companies won't switch though, mainly out of fear. Fear of the unknown. Fear of taking any kind of risk. It's too bad for them, in my opinion.

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It's not even the companies... it's usually a few neckbeards that believe Rockwell's products are still PLC5 level of quality.

NetNathan said:

Rockwell salesman claims they can buy a one-time Factory Talk site license (no annual fee?) that will cover them for 10 years on upgrades?
They are planning on using thin client licenses....

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We're moving from thin-clients (Wonderware) back to thick clients because we've had six years of Pain. In Wonderware ThinClients need an RDS server, so also needs a domain and ActiveDirectory... and all the other bolt-ons to make it work.

Not good to support on a vessel that can be anywhere in the world.