Unitronics - UniStream with remote EX I/O setup

I am trying to convince myself to come around to the new Unistream.

I just quoted a small panel expecting to use my default Automation Direct 10" C-More and the new DoMore but once I tallied up the cost for I/O (20 in, 30 out digitals and 20 analog in (Mostly type K thermocouples)..

I am attracted to the 16/16/2 cards from Unitronics and the new Unistream. A long time friend/vendor is pushing I try.

So I downloaded the FREE software and I immediately am taken back to why I have made NO attempt to try this platform in the past.

I'm a ladder guy. I have used Modicon and Siemens and I get the visual block method..... Don't like it ....

So who here loves the UniStream and can show me / explain the benefits.

If you are FLUENT and an expert in Unitronics and have actually taken a UniStream and linked to a remote I/o card and setup mixed type thermocouples and 4-20mA inputs in a project and are comfortable doing this again with ease....... I am happy to pay you to remote in webex and watch you do this setup.

If I see it once I'll have it.

I started knotting a crude noose out of dental floss watching the tutorials and gave up.. I need a speed lesson in this or I just won't use it.

unitronics was my first PLC I used from 2005-2010 exclusively in ladder and 2010-2014 has been exclusively function block on schneider quantum and M340 and now I am starting my first allen bradley project.

I always had to shut down the process when downloading changes on the unitronics because it would stop the program while downloading, and I frequently had "download errors" downloading over ethernet (granted sometimes over some challenging communications networks), whereas I regularly download to the schneider PLCs over high latency satellite links and even if the connection drops out half way through everything continues to tick along.

Never heard of unistream but that was my experience with unitronics. I would definitely use unitronics again but it was in a different league (and price point obviously) than the schneider stuff.

if the documentation for a product is poor and I can't figure out what I should be doing after a couple hours that is probably a bad sign. If it is a new product I generally avoid it and let someone else be the guinea pig and find all the 'bugs'. I am not a beta tester!

Thanks for your reply.

Turns out my local rep installed the new unitronics and we tried together to build a project. It was a non_intuitive mess.

So I asked "what's better about the new stuff?

Besides costing more and remote i/o requiring can-open msg handling.... the screen is brighter......

So he had me try the vision (old stuff)

I'm already hooked!

Ladder, visual remote rack drag/drop i/o build. Direct fixed addressing..... and cheaper. I can't wait to lay out this project.

I was initially going to use up some ADC cards and a 9 slot I had laying around with a new DO-More plc (also a very nice hardware portfolio). But needed 16 thermocouples (mixed type of all godforsaken things) as well as 20 inputs and 30 outputs. My 10" c-more is 1700. CPU 295, analog cards (NON isolated... 250 ea for 8 ch... and 8ch t/c cards are over 300 each). oh and the base is 250. Granted I have 1/4 of the parts laying around.... but i'm at nearly half price for the vision..... and isolated outputs?! nice. But I don't believe for a second I can mix thermocouple types. We'll see about that one.

[email protected] said:

So I asked "what's better about the new stuff?

Besides costing more and remote i/o requiring can-open msg handling.... the screen is brighter......

Click to expand...

Er..... the remote IO of the "old" stuff requires CAN as well. Perhaps you are confusing this with "expansion IO" which serves as a kind of cable based quasi backplane extension for small systems.

There are a number of things better about the new stuff. Much of it is "under the hood" so to speak. Unfortunately when creating the new development environment I think they placed too much emphasis on aesthetics and not enough on usability. There are many things I wish (and begged) them to do differently with the new software, but by and large the software is still a vast improvement over Visilogic.

That said, the ability to create user defined function blocks and user defined structures is extremely important for any integrator who wishes to create modular code they can develop and reuse over many projects. The communications capabilities are much further advanced. The new CPU and OS also allow them to overcome some limitations that were handcuffing them with respect to implementing certain features needed in modern controllers. There is a much better assortment of HMI elements to choose from that also allow a much higher level of configuration than in the past. This just scratches the surface, but be certain that there are many significant improvements.

[email protected] said:

So he had me try the vision (old stuff)

I'm already hooked!

Ladder, visual remote rack drag/drop i/o build. Direct fixed addressing..... and cheaper. I can't wait to lay out this project.

Click to expand...

Unistream IS ladder based. I have no idea what you mean by the "visual block" method. In fact the greatest improvement with the new format is the ladder development. With the "vision" product you draw the logic as if you were working in Autocad. Very time consuming and tedious. It is horrible if you actually value your own time. The new format allows you to build the ladder in a quick and efficient manner, without having to hassle with all the line drawings and other nonsense. Based on your comments I almost feel as though you didn't really understand what you were looking at. I was actually dissapointed that they did not implement the capability of some sort of structured text, FBD, or SFC.

The IO is also drag and drop in the same regard as Visilogic.

As far as direct fixed addressing goes, you can keep it. I left that in the past 15 years ago along with my 6lb cell phone and my tape cassette players. If you are really hung up on fixed addressing, make an array tag with 5000 elements and pretend it is fixed memory. Not much difference really for most practical purposes.

I am going to give you the same warning I give everyone when they start talking about loading up on the analog modules with the Vision products. Be very careful you read the specification sheets and make certain they meet your requirements. Pay particular attention to the conversion times and sampling speeds. Most of the cards are multiplexed and can have significant lag in response. Perfectly fine for slow system but potentially back breakers for system that require fast response. Maybe not an issue for you system, only you can decide that.

I encourage you to actually visit their support forum. You will find much greater expertise specific to their product and plenty of those with that expertise eager and willing to give you a hand. The Unistream product is very young at the moment so it will take a while for the product to mature in the same fashion that the Vision product has.

I really appreciate you weighing in on this.

My local "rep" reseller who supports his product line has actually never used the new series of hardware or software.

Yes I was referring to "expansion i/o" not "remote. (lapsis lingua)

The setup for the remote i/o wherein one graphically defines the connection? Appeared to my unaccustomed eye to be a function block.

I was initially turned off to the new software because the graphical drag and drop did not work for me. My reseller also was unable to to "populate a rack". Vauz it didn't work like he was used to w/ old software.

I then installed old software and immediately was able to drag/drop i/o modules. When my rep said "now you define the analog type and..." I interrupted him and said "I already figured it out. i'm on to my tag list.

But the graphical display tools seem spartan compared to C-more, Pro-face, redlion.

Did I miss a menu tool checkbox?

So my curiosity is peaked.

How DOES one populate a rack w/ i/o cards in the new software?

And RE: analogs. CAN I have type K and J on same T/C card?

[email protected] said:

How DOES one populate a rack w/ i/o cards in the new software?

And RE: analogs. CAN I have type K and J on same T/C card?

Click to expand...

If you are adding I/O to the main PLC/HMI its a simple drag and drop from the I/O list on the right to the picture of the PLC/HMI (If your screens are in the default layout the I/O screen is to the right and the PLC/HMI screen is in the middle when you select Hardware configuration. To use the standard remote I/O you have to have Vision software on your PC. You will open a file and then you can drag and drop like the chassis mounted cards. Also you need to configure a remote expansion module first.

Oh, I hate this drag and drop stuff - auto allocate I/OI and IEC stuff in general. Good old ladder with keyboard programming is for me! Get the job done and on to the next job and make some money!

Keyboard Support for UniStream

I wanted to point out that UniLogic does support some keystrokes for Hardware Configuration.

Method 1:
- Use Ctrl + Tab to cycle through the available options; stop at Toolbox
- Navigate through the list of modules using the arrow keys; hit Enter to drop a module into the configuration.

Method 2
- Hit Ctrl + T to focus on the Toolbox Search field.
- Enter a letter or number to filter the list; arrows and Enter

Direct fixed addressing in UniStream

DamianInRochester said:

As far as direct fixed addressing goes, you can keep it. I left that in the past 15 years ago along with my 6lb cell phone and my tape cassette players. If you are really hung up on fixed addressing,

Click to expand...

UniLogic does support this for those who can't be bothered:

I'm disappointed that there were no new post on UniStream or UniLogics Studio in March and I hope someone will comment in April to keep this General Subject active

OK I'l ladd a new post for Unitronics !!

I have finally gotten back to this project.

I have the hardware in hand and want to duplicate what I did with a DOMORE and CMORE for an extruder. Other unit had a recipe data move wherein I used a screen that you entered values and teh rows were numbered. Then I used as a way to MOVE the currently selected recipe.. a numeric entry that required you to select the recipe by entering a number from 1 to 12) the ladder then looked for the values in a roundabout way that I'm sure is NOT the best wat to do it... and that is..

a whole bunch of register pointer shifts then moves as follows


The value in the recipe "pointer" is mapped as follows

IF USER selects recipe #1 the values are in data block starting with address 100

if userselects v2 values start in data block 200 etc..

(there arent 100 values per recipe but for ease of math you'll see why I did this)

 

--|C40|------------------------------------ MATH

|                                           RESULT V1

|                                          V0+100

|                                          

|                                          MATH

|                                          RESULT V2

|                                          V0+200

|                                          

|                                          MATH

|                                          RESULT V3

|                                          V0+30

|                                          

|                                          MATH

|                                          RESULT V5

|                                          V0+50

|                                          

|                                          

|-|C40 (rising)|-------------------------------MOVE

|                                          SOURCE V[V1]

|                                          DEST N0

|                                          

|                                          MOVE

|                                          SOURCE D[V0]

|                                          DEST D20

|                                          

|                                          MOVE

|                                          SOURCE D[V1]

|                                          DEST D120

|                                          

|                                          MOVE

|                                          SOURCE D[V3]

|                                          D121

 

ETC...


SO THE QUESTION IS..

Can I use nested addressees in Unitronics code so I can organize my recipe values in blocks of 10 or 100 and point to them by selecting the recipe # on screen then based on selection block move values.

OR is there an even easier way?

Unitronics project update

Just getting back to my project success.
I had posted my question about recipe data management and someone from this forum fowarded my question to Unitronics who contacted me directly.

I got a 20 minute crash course that went like this.

me "ok give me the quick comparison tour. what is MB, MI etc.., what is range of analog card 4-20 (0-4095 etc.) what range do TC's come in at, where are the special purpose bits like "always on", how do I document bits, how do I create a data view, how I create a dynamic HMI bitmap?"

In 20 minutes I was up and running using Visilogic which compared to Directsoft, RS Logix, FX Developer and Step 7 is about the easiest and most intuitive software I have ever used!

2 "complaints"

1. Graphically the network white space only lets you shove about 4 columns of compare bits before you start another row, so I had some interlock permissive strings of 12 compares in series and had to zig zag the ladder which is not so LEFT to RIGHT friendly on the eye..... oh well. I'll get used to it.

and I had to call tech support and ask why from office to home after pulling my HDMI extended desktop screen, the properties window was lost on the other screen.

Apparently this is a windows 7 dual monitor issue for lots of software. So remember your windows shortcut keys!

ALT+SPACE is the "right click" windows properties. so
ALT+Space then ENTER then L or R arrow keys (hold L down and if window doesn't shimmy into view, try the R arrow).

Windows remembers the last place you options window pops up in.

I tried it for my FT View and it works there too. Silly me. Learn somethign new every day. In FT View with dual screens if you open an object's prooperties up comes window, if you then try to edit color the color box default opens in the First display. without breaking your neck looking at left screen then right screen.... do the ALT+Space, ENTER, L or R arrow to shimmy the color box to where you were hoping it will pop up in and it will remember to open there next time.