Remote radio Site Store and forward devices

TheWaterboy

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I am drawing a complete blank this morning looking for a unicorn.

I would like to install a device at a remote site that will gather the data points from that site and my polling system would get its info from that.
When the radio goes down or looses comm because a truck parked in front of it again... it would continue to poll for and store the timestamped data points.

When comms are restored the data points would them be recaptured into the motherships Historian in the proper space in the timeline.

I can't envision how this would even be possible but I'm sure it is. I believe this was the point of the DNP protocol which I have never used either.

If this was Ethernet connected I imagine a local historian would be the option but otherwise... not sure.

Any thoughts on a more generic solution? Even manf names to start with to get a feel on how its done would be helpful.
 
I wonder if Ignition Edge Sync would work for your use case?

https://docs.inductiveautomation.com/display/DOC80/Edge+Sync+Services

Here's an architecture sample that seems similar to your setup:

2020-02-21_15-58-55-sync-hb-with-str-fwd.png
 
DNP3 would be the way to go. But.. not so easy to integrate into your existing Rockwell system.

I guess the challenge is getting timestamped data back into a control system which doesn't have a way to handle timestamps, at a point before the historian.

I've seen someone use a Micrologix 1400 to convert Kingfisher timestamped data into the micrologix datalog format and extract that to CSV. No idea how, and i imagine it was no easy feat. But the 1400 is now a bit long in the tooth though for a new system.
 
This is a GE iFix site but your idea is a good one. Kepware has Store and Forward capability (but not a weeks worth like ignition does) but I can set up Kepware on the remote site and sent it back using the Historian OPC collectors. Now to get the cyber team to agree to that.

This will need a higher speed data carrier than it has now but thats gonna be the only way to get the blob of data back...

I love Ignition - I wish they would move to it.
Thanks for the idea.
 
I had a hell of time with Catapult DNP which iFix switched to from Kepware just for the DNP portion.

Is iFix used for the local and the remote? Some historian, like OSI PI, have interface that can buffer data then send the the data to historian once interface to server connection is restored. Not sure if Proficy historian have that ability or not.

I deal a lot of these type of setup and DNP so if you have a more detailed description that would help.
 
The remote is just a data collection point. Instrumentation and PLC.

Polled by a central serial Radio every 10 or so seconds and pushed into Historian at the plant via the iFix Database tags. There is no local SCADA system at the remote site.

If I envision this right in my head, a small windows machine that can run just Kepware to read the tags and an OPC collector from Historian to populate the iHistorian will take care of this. Not really thrilled about having a windows machine out there though.

still thinking it through.
 
Well, that's exactly what one of suggestion was going to be. A industrial PC running the historian interface. I read https://www.ge.com/digital/documentation/historian/version80/r_data_buffering.html that Proficy Historian Interface can indeed buffer data.

One of my other suggest is to look at SEL RTAC. It can talk to PLC (assume modbus or Ethernet/IP) and sent out DNP. You would have to call up SEL and run your scenario through them to see if it can do that and how long it can buffer the data in DNP.
 
This is close to that. I would not be hosting a historian at the remote site, but instead I would host just Kepware which can poll for the data and it also buffers. The collector would just provide the connectivity from Kepware to the Historian over the cellular link.

Kepware also has this product called ThingWorks Edge which sounds just like this. I haven't looked at this in any detail yet. The name "Thingworks" just makes me think its a toy even though I know its not.
 
What I'm not sure about is the ability for Kepware or any OPC server to buffer the data. What we typically do is install the OPC server and the historian interface on the same machine to avoid DCOM. The Interface then buffer the data if connection is lost to the historian server.

Most historian interfaces are also included in the historian package with no extra charge.
 
It does, I use that ability now when I have to take the SQL server down for updates. The data buffers in Kepware and then it plays it all back. But that is ODBC . . .
 
If you are already using SQL, can't you just setup a redundant SQL server locally and on your network, so when the network fails, it locally stores the data, and later does a sync?
Since SQL has a lot of effort put towards development, it seems like a strong option?
 
That's too much hardware on the remote side,, its a hot cramped cabinet outdoors and I'm feeding a historian with this data not SQL.
The example I gave earlier was from a different installation.

Besides, do you know what it costs to license SQL server ? :eek:
 
If this were a Rockwell Logix PLC at the site you could get a historian module that has a built-in store and forward and it would update the historian when connectivity is installed but it has to be a Rockwell historian on the other end.
 

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