VMs vs RDS

JordanCClark

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Join Date
Mar 2007
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Michigan
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Hello friends and neighbors,

I have five guys that I plan to give a virtual environment to work from for Rockwell products. So, I'm looking for recommendations, opinions, pros/cons, experiences (even anecdotal ones, but at least say so ;)) of using separate VMs on a VMWare server, or using RDS on a Windows Server.

EDIT1: Specific packages to run are Logix 500, Logix 5000, Studio 5000 and FTView Studio.

I wil iterate that I am not talking about a laptop with a VM on it. This is for a server bare metal installation.

Even VDI is on the table, as right now this is a fact-finding mission.

I would say that, for this exercise, money is no object; but let's face it: money is always an object.

And... go.
 
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RDS can depend on the software. Some software can run multiple copies and some cannot. The ones that don't would be a problem if two people want to run the same program. But VM using a common license pool can have the same problem. But if there are two licenses in the pool then the two people can run it separately. That's my 2 cents worth.
 
My opinion, forget about Remote Desktop - it's terrible. When someone wants to sign in, it just boots the currently logged in user out. I don't know if there are different implementations of Remote Desktop, but every time my clients had it, it was annoying to use. I personally use separate VMs for the different brands of PLCs I have to support (Rockwell, Siemens, etc.)... and if you have to support different versions of Rockwell's FT View, they have to be on separate VMs.
 
From memory, RDS on a standard server supports 2 (or 3?) simultaneous remote sessions. If you need more you need a terminal server.

RDS on a regular PC behaves as you describe and supports a single session.
 
RDS on a regular PC behaves as you describe and supports a single session.
Yes, my experiences were on desktop computers. I still think separate VMs is a cleaner solution, especially for concurrent use - and the host machine should be able to serve out the licenses (someone else needs to chime in on that).
 
My opinion, forget about Remote Desktop - it's terrible. When someone wants to sign in, it just boots the currently logged in user out.

Someone's only ever used single license remote desktop... Remote Desktop Servers do exist and are used throughout in IT and more and more in Automation products. Thin Manager is quite literally a glorified Remote Desktop Server.

However, I would probably look down the route of individual machines if there's development and potentially new programs being used.

I'd be royally ****ed off if someone did something to the remote desktop server and crashed my environment. Likewise, when that happens you may be able to replicate another user's machine and assign it to the unfortunate one.
 
I've never used RDS but have used VMWare a lot with those exact software packages. A few things I'll point out:
1) Reliability. How reliable is your network infrastructure out where folks are going to be using the software? At my last site, our network access was spotty at first then upgraded to where it was more reliable...but...the bandwidth wasn't great. I could get to files and such but it would NOT have supported the data flow needed for a remote desktop or virtual environment. At my current site, most of the facility does not have network access, so my laptop is basically an island when I'm on a machine.

2) Copies/Instances. Early on, I isolated FT View Studio from the other programs because of serious conflicts I encountered between RSLinx Enterprise (used by FTV) and RSLinx Classic (used by everything else). And, later, to support multiple versions of FT View Studio. And, later than that, to support a range of versions of RSLogix/Studio 5000 that did/didn't support a 64 bit OS. And different versions of Siemens software that didn't coexist well with each other or with AB.

3) Licensing. You seem to be coming from an IT background, but something to consider is connectivity between the license server and clients. At my last site, we were able to share a single license of an add-on language pack between multiple users by hosting it to a PC we could all ping. I tried that here and the firewall shut it down instantly. As an engineer in an organization that has very strict and centrally managed IT policies, I didn't pursue it because it wasn't really a need, but it's something to be aware of. Not only do your workstations need good, solid, reliable access to the VM/RDS systems, but you need to make sure that your FT Activation Manager instances can all communicate with each other without security issues. Also be aware of the number of VMs you'll need to create/license/maintain for the different software versions. If you're only using RSLogix 500 and the more recent versions of 5000 (say, after 24 or so), they can be on one 64 bit VM and the FT View studio on another (as long as you only need one version of FTV). Your licensing will need to support as many users as you have who all may need access to the PLC and HMI VMs at the same time.

4) Workstations. The workstations that your technicians/engineers will be using in the field will need to be connected to the servers as well as the machines. In my experience, these are generally (and should be) on different networks that aren't routable between each other except in very limited circumstances. The PCs will therefore need multiple NICs. The local user will need to be able to reconfigure at least one NIC to match the PLC's network without interfering with the connection to the VM/RDS.




My personal preference is to have a standalone workstation with the licenses, storage, and software that it needs. And the ability to make periodic backups of the VMs. I suppose I might think differently if I'd EVER had access to a good network that was fast and reliable throughout the facility, but I never have.
 

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